Here's some comments from readers. This whole thing started as a post on Facebook. When I saw the responses from like minded people I decided to go a-blogging. So here goes:
"Restoring traditional marriage comes with keeping couples together through tough times and supporting couples in their time of need as well as when the relationship is healthy. Marriage is based on love and commitment and does not discriminate based on gender.
America's view on "traditional marriage" was lost long ago when divorce rates soared. In my generation, having friends with parents who are still married is a rarity. A vote no on Prop 8 would have put "tradition" back into marriage by allowing people who love each other to make a commitment to each other, to honor that commitment.
Christianity is not something to hide behind when you discriminate. Aren't we all equal in His eyes? Isn't the goal in life to be as pure and good as He was and to show that through our actions? I'm with Roberto to be the new face of God's people on earth.
-AS"
"Roberto -
I really enjoyed reading your posting. Thanks for sharing so openly. I am on the board of a gay Christian organization called ECWR (www.ecwr.org). It's been a "safe" and affirming place for me for over 15 years. Soulforce is another progressive Christian organization focused on doing justice (www.soulforce.org). And Sojourners is a progressive Christian organization as well (go.sojo.net). Just some additional websites that could be a good resource.
God bless,
-MH"
"I didn't know you were a closet Christian and I am glad or I would have thought you were some zealot. The religion has been hijacked by ultra right-wing conservatives and have ruined the religion. It's sad, but I hate organized religion BECAUSE of those people. I need to see more people like you speak up so that I know whether those zealots are the majority or minority.
-JB"
Thanks for the support everyone. And thanks to my one follower, may you soon become my first follower.
Saturday, November 8, 2008
Thursday, November 6, 2008
"Restore"
This is not going to be "the Prop 8" blog. Hopefully I'll find the ability to branch out to other issues facing the Christian left, but Prop 8 is the hot topic right now. It's the inspiration for this blog and I've got to get these thoughts out.
One of the most insidious things about the pro-prop 8 campaign was their use of the phrase "Restore traditional marriage." I'm sorry, was traditional marriage dissolved when California gave same sex couples the right to marry?
Looking back on those heady times I don't remember them being any different than the days that came before them. At least as far as my marriage is concerned. Every morning I woke up next to my beautiful wife. We showered ate and went to work just as we always had. At the end of the day we came home, talked about our day and what we wanted for dinner, same as always. Our child was conceived and continued to grow just as children have since the mammals evolved. All of this continued on even though people of the same sex were marrying each other. My ring stayed right where my wife had put it on our wedding day. We went to church on Sundays and no one questioned whether we really were married.
So tell me, what about my marriage had to be "restored?" Oh right, nothing. Despite the fact that my wife's dear friend was able to marry her partner nothing about my marriage changed at all. Wait. I'm wrong. Something did change for us. We were much happier in our marriage knowing that all of our friends were able to share the same bond, the same rights that we were. I remember my wife being so much happier on our wedding day because she had reservations about getting married unless everyone could get married. For us, and for many Christians like us, same sex marriage reaffirmed and supported our own traditional marriage.
So does traditional marriage need to be "restored?" Maybe. But it has nothing to do with same sex marriage. The biggest threat to traditional marriage is straight people. Somewhere around %50 of people who enter into marriage in America do not stay married. More and more people seem to believe that marriage is between one man and one woman and a mistress and someone from the NSA group on craigslist up until the one man and one woman get tired of each other get divorced re-marry and start second families. This is an institution that needs saving? You mean if gay people get married we may lose all that? How does serial marriage and divorce strengthen families? Haven't straight people done enough to destroy marriage as seen in the eyes of God? If we are to "restore" traditional marriage shouldn't we be looking at banning divorce? Shouldn't we force people to stay together "for the sake of the kids?"
Of course "traditional marriage" is a completely false and imagined ideal. Traditional marriage conotes Ozzie and Harriet, and the Cleavers. We all know that couples in the past didn't always stay together because they loved each other. They stayed together because they were supposed to , even if they were miserable. Then as the 50s became the 60s and beyond and divorce became not only accepted, but common, and now expected. How should we define "traditional marriage?" Why stop at one an and one woman? If we really are going to use the bible to define it then shouldn't it be "between one man and one woman...forever?" I'm pretty sure the "forever" part is in the vows. Why not go farther back into the bible? Why not allow marriage to be between one man and several women? If it was good enough for Abraham who are we to argue? After all, it's in the bible. Shall we "restore" polygamy as "traditional?" The fact is "traditional marriage", if it ever really exisited, was destroyed long ago; by straight people. So why not give someone else a shot at it? They couldn't do any worse than we have. They may do better.
Other people's rights do not diminish your own. Other people's hapiness does not infringe of your own. No one else's marriage has any affect on yours. And unless you are a very weak, very insecure person no one's beliefs or love or marriage interferes with your relationship with God. Your relationship with God is you own. No one can change it, no one can end it. Your experience is your own. Who I love, who my friends love, does not have any impact on you at all. Nor should you allow your concept of God have an impact on us.
-Berto
Check out this post. It's dead on.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/i-am-a-man-2/
One of the most insidious things about the pro-prop 8 campaign was their use of the phrase "Restore traditional marriage." I'm sorry, was traditional marriage dissolved when California gave same sex couples the right to marry?
Looking back on those heady times I don't remember them being any different than the days that came before them. At least as far as my marriage is concerned. Every morning I woke up next to my beautiful wife. We showered ate and went to work just as we always had. At the end of the day we came home, talked about our day and what we wanted for dinner, same as always. Our child was conceived and continued to grow just as children have since the mammals evolved. All of this continued on even though people of the same sex were marrying each other. My ring stayed right where my wife had put it on our wedding day. We went to church on Sundays and no one questioned whether we really were married.
So tell me, what about my marriage had to be "restored?" Oh right, nothing. Despite the fact that my wife's dear friend was able to marry her partner nothing about my marriage changed at all. Wait. I'm wrong. Something did change for us. We were much happier in our marriage knowing that all of our friends were able to share the same bond, the same rights that we were. I remember my wife being so much happier on our wedding day because she had reservations about getting married unless everyone could get married. For us, and for many Christians like us, same sex marriage reaffirmed and supported our own traditional marriage.
So does traditional marriage need to be "restored?" Maybe. But it has nothing to do with same sex marriage. The biggest threat to traditional marriage is straight people. Somewhere around %50 of people who enter into marriage in America do not stay married. More and more people seem to believe that marriage is between one man and one woman and a mistress and someone from the NSA group on craigslist up until the one man and one woman get tired of each other get divorced re-marry and start second families. This is an institution that needs saving? You mean if gay people get married we may lose all that? How does serial marriage and divorce strengthen families? Haven't straight people done enough to destroy marriage as seen in the eyes of God? If we are to "restore" traditional marriage shouldn't we be looking at banning divorce? Shouldn't we force people to stay together "for the sake of the kids?"
Of course "traditional marriage" is a completely false and imagined ideal. Traditional marriage conotes Ozzie and Harriet, and the Cleavers. We all know that couples in the past didn't always stay together because they loved each other. They stayed together because they were supposed to , even if they were miserable. Then as the 50s became the 60s and beyond and divorce became not only accepted, but common, and now expected. How should we define "traditional marriage?" Why stop at one an and one woman? If we really are going to use the bible to define it then shouldn't it be "between one man and one woman...forever?" I'm pretty sure the "forever" part is in the vows. Why not go farther back into the bible? Why not allow marriage to be between one man and several women? If it was good enough for Abraham who are we to argue? After all, it's in the bible. Shall we "restore" polygamy as "traditional?" The fact is "traditional marriage", if it ever really exisited, was destroyed long ago; by straight people. So why not give someone else a shot at it? They couldn't do any worse than we have. They may do better.
Other people's rights do not diminish your own. Other people's hapiness does not infringe of your own. No one else's marriage has any affect on yours. And unless you are a very weak, very insecure person no one's beliefs or love or marriage interferes with your relationship with God. Your relationship with God is you own. No one can change it, no one can end it. Your experience is your own. Who I love, who my friends love, does not have any impact on you at all. Nor should you allow your concept of God have an impact on us.
-Berto
Check out this post. It's dead on.
http://firedoglake.com/2008/11/05/i-am-a-man-2/
Wednesday, November 5, 2008
Closet Christians Unite
It looks like Prop 8 is going to pass. This is a sad day for California and a sad day for America. My heart goes out to all of my friends who have lost a basic human right.One thing I can't shake is the people who say they voted yes on 8 because of their religion. It's not that they followed their beliefs, I'm OK with that. It's something my wife said to me last night, why do they get to be the face of Christian America?
This morning I heard a woman on the radio say that she voted for Prop 8 because she's a born again Christian. Supporters say they need Prop 8 to protect their kids and restore traditional marriage. So know I am compelled to say something I've never really said publicly. I am also a born again Christian. I believe that my path to a better life on earth and afterwards lies in my faith in the word of Jesus Christ. I also believe that any two people who love each other enough to make a lifetime commitment deserve the right to sanctify that union in the most public manner we have in our society. Regardless of individual churches' stance government sanctioned marriage is something all people deserve. I believe this as an American and as a Christian.
Many of us have been quiet for too long for fear of opressing others with our religion. We have been private in our relationship with the Lord because we are afraid that our friends and family won't understand. We don't want people to think we're one of "those people."
The time has come for us Christians to stand up. It is time for us to proclaim our faith and show the world that people who love Christ also love our brothers and sisters on earth no matter who they love. We can no longer sit by and allow the Christian right to be the sole face of Christian America. I call on all of you who believe in equality, justice, and Jesus to come forward and take your place in the Christian community. Let us be the new face of God's people on earth.
-Berto
This morning I heard a woman on the radio say that she voted for Prop 8 because she's a born again Christian. Supporters say they need Prop 8 to protect their kids and restore traditional marriage. So know I am compelled to say something I've never really said publicly. I am also a born again Christian. I believe that my path to a better life on earth and afterwards lies in my faith in the word of Jesus Christ. I also believe that any two people who love each other enough to make a lifetime commitment deserve the right to sanctify that union in the most public manner we have in our society. Regardless of individual churches' stance government sanctioned marriage is something all people deserve. I believe this as an American and as a Christian.
Many of us have been quiet for too long for fear of opressing others with our religion. We have been private in our relationship with the Lord because we are afraid that our friends and family won't understand. We don't want people to think we're one of "those people."
The time has come for us Christians to stand up. It is time for us to proclaim our faith and show the world that people who love Christ also love our brothers and sisters on earth no matter who they love. We can no longer sit by and allow the Christian right to be the sole face of Christian America. I call on all of you who believe in equality, justice, and Jesus to come forward and take your place in the Christian community. Let us be the new face of God's people on earth.
-Berto
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